Let's Talk about Sǎns: Powdering Raw Herbs

Hi, this looks great! Will it be recorded for participants who can't make that timing? Thank you

Yes, definitely

Thank you!

I'm excited for this conversation. I often wonder if granule decoctions are less effective because they should be Sans!

After listening to this class I am wondering, would having patients put the herbs in a teabag and then overnight steep it affect the formula or is it best to pour through a filter after the overnight steep.

Disposable teabags are actually made with plastic these days, even if they look like paper, so they add microplastics. Cloth teabags can be better that way, but if packed too tight, there is not good water flow through them. In addition, they probably don't filter the fine particles as well as coffee filters and the like.

I briefly tried putting the powdered herbs in tea bags for convenience for patients going on holiday but no longer do this. had a couple of reliable, discerning patients do a taste test for me and they both said that the herbs didn’t taste as strong. Two not enough for conclusion but, as Lorraine says, there will be less water flowing through them.
Thank you so much for the class last night. I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was so relevant for our times.

You can order little cotten sacks from Springwind. They are not on the website but if you call, Jesse will send them to you. I agree with Lorraine that very fine powder may get through but if it is coarse, these should be fine. Also, they can't steep it like tea. I think if they soak it and put it into the thermos and make sure it sits in the boiling water at least overnight, it should be good. The little sacks have a string on them that can be pulled off and used to tie it up.

Sharon what do you mean they can’t steep it like a tea. If they put the herbs in a 2 inch stainless steel filter - still leaving them in the boiling water in the thermos overnight. Is that too different to just letting the herbs float around. AND still at the end to pour through a paper filter to remove any fine particles, would that work? I have some patients who don’t like cleaning out the sludge and I’m just trying to figure out convenience/ compliance

Hi Shannon, I think that is the same but it would be good for them to soak them through and through first.

Great. Thanks

If I have good compliance with patients decocting their herbs, then a benefit I see is cost as mentioned.
Would it be similar cooking as the Song dynasty method Andy mentioned - if they want to save money but still decoct?
Is it correct that I would grind the herbs, measure out 9-12g/day and cook until 30% of the water is gone? And this is one economical days dose for Song Dynasty style?

That sounds right to me Nicole. It might be easier for people to give them a fixed time to cook. Andy was recommending 30 minutes.

How long do you get your patients to boil them Sharon when they want to take them right away? I thought with more surface area it would be closer to 15. I think when I listened to Eran talk about the boiling method he suggested 10.

I have been having the boil them for 15 minutes.

I like the idea of using San Powder. However, in my situation, it's almost impossible to practice. I'm solo practitioner. My office is very small, only 700 sqf, with others office around. I don't have storage space for raw herbs, no time to prep, and noise will border those around. I believe I'm not the only solo practitioner in confine space. I wish there is a place sell san powder.

Thank you Sharon and Andy! By the way, I taught a Fu zi course awhile back and did consult with Andy and included his cautions but also explained how I use Fu zi in clinic often around 30g, The class was focused on how to use it effectively and not be afraid of it, as in school that is often what's taught.
Part 1
https://www.whitepinecommunity.org/event/part-1-whos-afraid-big-bad-wol…
Part 2 https://www.whitepinecommunity.org/event/part-2-whos-afraid-big-bad-wol…

I need some help/advise here. I have been trying the filtering through a coffee filter for the past week and it is not going well. My patient's are losing their patience and so am I. The fluid filters very slowly- usually only half gets through the filter, and the filters break. I have tried it with a coffee cone. I have tried using a steel mesh filter first before the paper filter. I have tried it with different kinds of filters #2, #4 a filter that is for 8-10 cups of fluid. My patient compliancy is going down. Many of my patient's didn't take their herbs because they were too frustrated. Any suggestions?

Use a cloth filter. You can cut an old sheet or a pillowcase with a high thread count. It will work very well. You can also let the liquid sit for a while and strain just the top part, leaving most of the sludge in the original container. If you do that, a coffee filter should work a little better.

I have written instructions for my patients and tell them to leave the flask overnight and in the morning, don’t shake or stir - just pour off the liquid and leave the powders behind. Still have to use a very fine strainer but you don’t have all that sludge to deal with.

I have my patients use a French press and have never had ay complaints or issues. Works amazingly well.

Thanks Candace. That’s where I think I am going.

I am following this conversation about using French press and I wondered about trying the Aeropress. I use this for my coffee and it is supposed to be the best way of preparing coffee without the granules coming through. You can buy non bleached filters for them. I might give it a go but will have to buy a new one as I don’t want the taste of the herbs to tinge my coffee flavour!

Shannon Larson I do not use any filters with the press. It filters just fine using the mesh filter on the mechanism. I got a steel french press on amazon.

it was something like this- https://www.amazon.com/CAOANTRY-French-Stainless-Filters-Camping/dp/B0G…

In case anyone following- French Press for the win🙌. It filters very well. I’m still having my patients boil the herbs for 15 min or leave over night in a vacuum sealed thermos, then filter through a French press. I can see there are certain French presses that keep warm for a long while but many of my patients already have a regular one and the glass ones are extremely affordable. Thank you Candace!

Ive been dispensing raw powder for 5+ years now. I started this in order to better understand the herbs- what how and why they do what they do. Im always considering other clinical models and may not keep a San dispensary forever.

Nonetheless I wanted to share how I meet the patient where they are at with regard to compliance. My patients have 3 options.

1. Loose powder (cook and strain). High effort, high potency, optimized safety.

2. Bags (steep overnight in a Teabloom Cosmopolitan vacuum sealed mug with stainless steel insert removed). Make sure each bag contains no more than 12 grams to optimize the steeping. If the prescription is 16 grams per day, I go with 8g/bag and 2 bags per day. Low effort, high potency, safe.

3. Loose powder placed in the stainless steel insert with just-boiled water in the Teabloom Cosmopolitan mug (shaken then steeped overnight upside down). Another option for those who dont prefer bags.

For bags I use T-sac bags which they state are made in Germany from Manila hemp fibers and contain no microplastics. I charge a fee for bagging and sealing.

If anyone has specific knowledge as to why T-sac sealable bags are less than ideal, I'd sure like to hear it.

I suggest 2.5 cups that reduces to about 2 cups with 30 minutes of cooking while covered. For steeping, 2 cups. BTW If we consider whole raw herb daily dosages in the 100-150g range and a san:whole ratio of 1:10 (and we can and should debate that number), then a san dosage of 10-15 grams, if properly prepared, should be an effective working range. My experience is that 15 gram daily dose gets the results I expect for a 160lb adult. Similar to what Andrew Ellis said here, a strictly san pharmacy is new and like any science, progress looks like a sailboat tacking- constant course corrections as we go.